Evolution

[Kirk Hammett]

Thought I'd edit this and see if anybody is interested in replying

Wolves and evolution. You are bitten. DNA is changed, and you start breeding.

Selective breeding? Artificial selection? That would be interesting.

How about evolution? What exactly happens as a werewolf species goes on. What sort of selection pressures would there be? And what would it give rise to? Or would they stay in a bit of a slow process like humans? I say they would evolve and I say humans have not stopped evolving (long interesting ideas but this thread isn't really about humans although at the same time, werewolves are half 'human'...eh yeah). But what exactly, if a virus, would it mutate into? Because that's how evolution goes about; mutations and the best survives to selection pressures. Are they smarter in the long run? Do they evolve different features? It depends on their environment I suppose. Does their human culture turn their evolution into something like ours? Does it depend on where they live, their culture, how much humanity there is in their life style etc...there's so much to think about.

Righto I am going to bed now. I've posted enough and my wrists ache, not a good thing for a guitarist.

Edit: MoonKit bought this up; do I mean evolving virus or the werewolf as a species? You can discuss what you like. I like to think of the werewolf as a species, but that's only my opinion. Viruses mutate and evolve even if they aren't classified in the living kingdom.

[Kirk Hammett]

Well editing didn't move the post. Since no one ever posted here, I thought reviving it would be allowed, if not, sorry.

[MoonKit]

Sorry, that post isnt very clear to me. Your asking how we think werewolves would/could evolve, either as a species or as a virus?

[Night Rain]

Well... given a few million years...

Well, basically my point is it's so slow we'd never notice. One thing, however: if they are generally in isolated groups, they would likely evolve in separate ways depending on their environment.

It would also depend how much they actually breed (as opposed to say, biting people). The fewer generations there are the less evolution there will be.

[Kirk Hammett]

Sorry, that post isnt very clear to me. Your asking how we think werewolves would/could evolve, either as a species or as a virus?

Either. I prefer werewolves as species, that the 'virus' alters their genetic makeup and that they can breed so it is no longer a virus, but that's only my preference. You can discuss how it evolves as a virus if you like, as a seperate virus, the virus itself I mean, or you can discuss how it evolves as a species.

Night Rain: Yeah we don't see evolution except for those natural selection examples and fossil records and you know the drill. I think they would speciate also, or into different races at least, which can interbreed but are morphologically different slightly. I think there was a thread discussing werewolf races and whether the human race would interfere. I was on there but I forgot the link, if anyone has it, post it

The subjects too broad, thats why I put it up, I have a million things to write on it but it'd take me ages.

One last thing: Im unsure why as yet, but I usually like to make it hard for werewolves to breed. High mortality rates. This keeps the population low. Small populations tend to become bottlenecked over time. It's just too many werewolves in the world are never fitting with the stories I write...however this is only in my modification of the werewolf that I created. Which I don't even call a werewolf

[Night Rain]

If it were going to be hard for them to breed, I'd personally prefer the trouble some hybrid animals have (like Ligers, for example---very, very few are fertile).

[Fenrir]

or it could be a third evolutionary path

ok


____________Primates
mammals
____________Canines

Well between the two a genetic mix of the traits of both. But it would have had to evolve in a place were both men and wolves were prevelent enough for breeding and intermixing were possible. So it would probably started in Germany or around there.

[Scott Gardener]

I've done a bit of this in my own stories, though I have yet to write formally anything post-worthy on the subject. In my storyline, about 50,000 years from now, a wolf anthropomorph civilization discovers that their ancestors were genetically modified humans who could shapeshift into human form, as well as into a four-legged form that previously was known only in legend as a form that souls allegedly took on as ghosts. They're basically werewolves that evolved out the ability to become human, staying in Gestalt form. After only 50,000 years or so, however, there's not too much else that's changed, and when they discover humans who compare genetic notes, the werewolf civilization discovers through research and revisiting their own legends and lore how to shapeshift again.

[RedEye]

All things evolve...or they perish.
Werewolves would likely be fast tracked, due to both small breeding populations and human interference.
Were's would evolve in such a way that the human danger was minimised, which would probably mean they'd become human.
Bummer. SO:
Given, though that Werewolves are by nature a superior vessle for human-like intelligence in a competitive world, say where the U.V. levels are high due to an eroded Ozonisphere, the temperature was higher, due to Greenhouse gasses, and new diseases were arising...well, I'd give the Were's the nod. Their fur blocks U.V. from the skin and insulates heat out, and they are generally immune to diseases of any type; then they would be the superior species, and survive.
In short: the Werewolf is more likely to survive in our planet's future, given the current predictions, than we are. Bummer, again.
You just can't win with evolution.

[FoxOfWar]

[Kirk Hammett]

Haha! Nah evolution you can't really win because organisms evolve to the local environment...or should I say, the local time period, because climate changes and everything must evolve, adapt or die.

I'd love to read your story about that, Scott. I loved your other one.

[MoonKit]

If it were going to be hard for them to breed, I'd personally prefer the trouble some hybrid animals have (like Ligers, for example---very, very few are fertile).

I agree NightRain.

Those ligers are friggen huge. Have you seen the tigon too. Its a lioness and male tiger cross instead of the lion and tigress cross. Its small like a housecat.

[RedEye]

I suspect that the Virus (nominally referred to Lycan Template Morphic Virus or LTM) causing Werewolf shifting (when it's due to a virus and not something else, like a duckie bonk) would mutate, but slowly, very slowly.
The most common pathogenic virus, Influenza, mutates like mad because it's Hosts keep getting vaccinated and so the viral shift mechanism kicks in. Viral shift is where we see Evolution actually occurring: the Influenza virus has to change to stay alive in continually immunizing Hosts, so this year's Influenza is last years Influenza mutated to survive by the process of: Only the Virus that is Immune to the Immunization of the Host can replicate and spread, and since this is constantly changing, the Virus changes too. It adapts to new circumstances by the method of "only these viruses will live, because only they are not stopped by the Host's Immune system." If your Immune system is not working, you can get the Influenza virus of Ten years ago, because your immune system can't stop it. Errgh! Badly written, but I think it covers the basics...
The Were'virus LTM doesn't have that problem. There is no Vaccination against it, it is 100% effective (unless the Host dies of something else) as with any virus, infection is 100% forever...and there is no need, no counter-force to cause only certain versions of the LTM virus to survive.
They all survive. What you get then is a wide spectrum of Viruses that do essentially the same thing: Make Werewolves! There would be some minor differences in viral forms, but as a whole, they wouldn't have anything winnowing out 90% of the Viruses and forcing mutations for survival.
It's probably a primitive form of Rabies that went different, and instead of killing the host, makes the host nearly Unkillable, while causing some trivial metamorphic side effects (Great side effects!). With all it has to do, it's a big virus, perhaps even visible under regular light (and that's big!).
The other version I've heard of is that it is a Catalyst Virus...causing the Morphing...but there is a Spiritual Effect triggered wherein the Were' is actually now sharing a body with a Wolf-Spirit or soul. Either way works.
What's important is that the LTM virus probably doesn't change much, compared to influenza, is as stable as a virus gets, and is a lot more fun than the Flu....

[Apokryltaros]

Influenza IS the Flu.
"Flu" is short for "Influenza," in fact.
And it's not terribly stable, some strains mutate very rapidly, then suddenly revert back to a previous form, while other strains remain stable, only mutating once in a while, albeit in a grand way.

[RedEye]

Sorry: I used a contraction when I shouldn't have. My point was: Due to little in the way of need for mutation, mutations in the LTM virus would be reabsorbed. The Flu has a much harder job of survival: everybody want's it dead, so mutation is obvious, because only some mutants will survive to create the next version of the Flu.
The LTM virus, due to its effects, is much less unpleasant than the Influenza Virus (once infection is complete), and unlike the Influenza Virus, has a smaller population to infect.

News Flash: I just heard a claim that the Influenza VIrus may be over 1500 years old, based on some DNA samples from an Aleutian Natural Mummy. If so, that has to be some kind of unpleasant record. One disease virus, over 1500 years old, mutating every few years...nasty.

[Apokryltaros]

The claim is inaccurate:
Influenza has been with us for thousands of years, ever since we domesticated ducks and geese, and pigs (waterfowl and pigs being the origins of the two main lineages of human influenza)
Two or so years ago, scientists dug up the frozen corpse of an Alaskan woman who died during the catastrophic Spanish Flu Pandemic in the 1920's to see if she still had the virus in her frozen carcass. From the frozen virus, the scientists were able to recreate the genome of the Spanish Flu virus, and found that it was a strain of swine influenza.

[Kirk Hammett]

If it were going to be hard for them to breed, I'd personally prefer the trouble some hybrid animals have (like Ligers, for example---very, very few are fertile).

I agree NightRain.

Those ligers are friggen huge. Have you seen the tigon too. Its a lioness and male tiger cross instead of the lion and tigress cross. Its small like a housecat.

I agree too.

I think it's cruel to breed different species together and have them locked in a zoo for entertainment. They do look cool though. But it is very cruel

[wolf_demon_666]

werewolves would be lifemates more than likely and have some weird cortship thing that goes along with it though

[Kzinistzerg]

What? That has nothign to do with evolution...

I agree NightRain.

Those ligers are friggen huge. Have you seen the tigon too. Its a lioness and male tiger cross instead of the lion and tigress cross. Its small like a housecat

Actually, this is because male lions gvie genes fr size, and female lions give genes for tinyness. They balance each other out normally but in crossingly only the aerge gene or the samll gene gets expressed, hence the size.

[Kirk Hammett]

What? That has nothign to do with evolution...

I agree NightRain.

Those ligers are friggen huge. Have you seen the tigon too. Its a lioness and male tiger cross instead of the lion and tigress cross. Its small like a housecat

Actually, this is because male lions gvie genes fr size, and female lions give genes for tinyness. They balance each other out normally but in crossingly only the aerge gene or the samll gene gets expressed, hence the size.

I think our topic just drifted I know it's off topic.

[HELLHOUND]

Have a Look a Underworld Evolution.
How the species evolved.

Immortal Human
Immortal Werewolf *uncontrolled savagery* White Fur, skin.
Black Werewolves, uncontrolled and mindless.
The Standard Lycans we saw in the Film. They are 4th Iteration of the Immortality virus in the Lycan line.

Then we see the Hybrid mutation, Michel. Lycan/Vamp.
Then we see another Hybrid mutation. Marcus. True Vampire/lycan.
Then we get to see another. Selene. Vampire/True Immortal.

All we need now are: True Lycan/Vampire and Lycan/True Immortal.

[Kirk Hammett]

Have a Look a Underworld Evolution.
How the species evolved.

Immortal Human
Immortal Werewolf *uncontrolled savagery* White Fur, skin.
Black Werewolves, uncontrolled and mindless.
The Standard Lycans we saw in the Film. They are 4th Iteration of the Immortality virus in the Lycan line.

Then we see the Hybrid mutation, Michel. Lycan/Vamp.
Then we see another Hybrid mutation. Marcus. True Vampire/lycan.
Then we get to see another. Selene. Vampire/True Immortal.

All we need now are: True Lycan/Vampire and Lycan/True Immortal.

Well thats one example of an opinion of how evolution might occur, there are billions. Thanks for that Hellhound. I never thought of that movie. Then again I didn't like the movie a whole heap either, although I liked the designs a lot. All those weres needed were tails! They looked great in the second one, and the bat creature was awesome.

[Rhuen]

Well in my own fictional universe there are several different kinds of vampires and werewolves and what not.

I can see over time different breeds of werewolves popping up from small European Quadrapeds to giant biped Artic versions to smaller more ape like versions that more closely resemble Baboons than wolves.