the size of a werewolf

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:48 pm

Set wrote:
Figarou wrote:And how would a werewolf stay fat if his metabolic rate is very high?
By that logic, a skinny person couldn't be a werewolf either, because their metabolism would run so fast it would litereally eat away their own body because there's not enough there to nourish them.

One of the reasons it's so damn hard to keep weight on thoroughbreds is because of their metabolism. I fed that mare constantly, and she was perfectly healthy and parasite free, but she was still skinny as a rail.

With the rate you're envisioning - high enough to make someone fat look like they went on a serious diet - it would easily kill anyone who didn't have enough weight on them.

If that was true, then I would be a Goner if I was bitten by a Werewolf. I'm 5'7" and only 120 pounds, with a 29" waist. ...in other words, I'm very skinny for a Guy.

I find the direction this conversation is going to be odd though...

I seem to recall having conversations in the past on similar topics where everyone seemed to agree that lycanthropy would correct physical disorders and make unfit-people FIT ...yet, now everyone seems to think the opposite, whereas now only those in ideal condition could survive the process at all.

Not that I'm complaining...as I have allways been of the opinion that Lycantropy Should be lethal to some.

...still...I find it strange that opinions seem to have shifted now that the possibility of fat or scawny werewolves has come up.

Would a great big Bear-like werewolf, or one so lean it almost looks like a WereFox/Coyote be such a bad thing?

...sounds cool to me...

It all just depends on how the result is presented I think.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:51 am

Well me personally being a bigger indivdual find it strange how people are against big werewolves..They have chubby Vampires,Dragons and other Creatures..Say if that creature is pregnant? Does that still count as being fat? Not that I am pregnant, but I thought I'd bring that up..Basically you all are saying a big person can only be a big person and can't be a werewolf cause it can die..

Maybe you need to see it happen first before you make that decision..Has any of you seen anyone shift into anything in your life? I doubt you'll answer yes or no, but I don't care..

You bring all this stuff in here about science and what-not but if you haven't seen it, you can say a thing..You don't have proof ..

While a bigger person might have a larger bulid I believe the werewolf would be the same..I mean how do you know where te wight goes? It may spread through the whole body and even out..You don't know..give me proof I say!!

Anyone can be a werewolf as far as I'm concerned...ack..this topic...

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:15 am

SabreTheJokerWolfFool wrote:Well me personally being a bigger indivdual find it strange how people are against big werewolves..They have chubby Vampires,Dragons and other Creatures..Say if that creature is pregnant? Does that still count as being fat? Not that I am pregnant, but I thought I'd bring that up..Basically you all are saying a big person can only be a big person and can't be a werewolf cause it can die..

Maybe you need to see it happen first before you make that decision..Has any of you seen anyone shift into anything in your life? I doubt you'll answer yes or no, but I don't care..

You bring all this stuff in here about science and what-not but if you haven't seen it, you can say a thing..You don't have proof ..

While a bigger person might have a larger bulid I believe the werewolf would be the same..I mean how do you know where te wight goes? It may spread through the whole body and even out..You don't know..give me proof I say!!

Anyone can be a werewolf as far as I'm concerned...ack..this topic...

Proof?

The only way to prove something is to have a "real" honest to god shape shifting werewolf here in this forum telling us everything he knows.

Heh....I'll be suprised if he tells us its impossible to become a werewolf from a bite.

And I'm not against big/fat werewolves. Maybe its possible. I'm just going by scientific theories. I could be right, I could be wrong. But nothing can be proven.

Also, if someone was attacked by a werewolf, do you think the werewolf will do very little damage? I don't think he'll bite you once then walk off. Its going to be tough becoming a werewolf if your head gets ripped off.

Unless the werewolf decides nibble on your ear instead.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:58 am

Personally, I have no desire whatsoever to see fat werewolves in Freeborn. Ugh. No offense to the bigger people out there, but I just don't want to see it. I also don't want to see any characters that are unhealthily scrawny. Both would turn out to be rather lame werewolves, in my opinion.

Someone who is skinny, but not ridiculously so, is fine. As is someone who's a little chubby, but not obese. I personally always felt that becoming a werewolf made you physically a better version of yourself. Meaning that a fat person who became a werewolf would slim down over time and a ridiculously skinny person would bulk up a little eventually. Not to a ridiculous degree, of course, but if being a werewolf is supposed to improve your overall health (and that's always the impression that I got from reading this forum) then it's illogical that there should be really fat or really skinny werewolves.

And don't suggest to me that I'm not being fair....I'm overweight myself, and I'm willing to admit that someone who looks like me becoming a werewolf would be not only illogical but also unattractive.

I'm not suggesting that all of Freeborn's cast has to be gorgeous...but they should all at least look healthy, if not beautiful (though I certainly prefer beautiful). Even if there are no outliers in the film in terms of weight, that still leaves a rather large amount of variation in ways that both the werewolves' human forms and shifted forms can look.

In addressing whether a person's human size affects their werewolf size, of course it does. Small people, on average, become small werewolves, and big tall people become big tall werewolves. But, I'm also in favor of someone's 'mental' size, if you will, affecting their shifted size. A short, scrawny girl might become an eight foot monstrosity if her will and personality are strong (note: exaggeration, just making a point). I believe that more things besides a person's physical size should influence how big they become as a werewolf. The Freeborn werewolves are magical instead of biological, it seems, so I think it would almost be a shame if there was a strict formulaic logical way to figure out how big a person's werewolf form would be based on their human size. A line towards the end of the script about Zane's size as a werewolf suggests to me that AB does intend for the 'inner person' to influence the shifted werewolf. [spoiler]Zane has shifted to gestalt, and is about to fight another werewolf. The line says something about how the other werewolf reacted with surprise, because Zane's gestalt form was one of the largest he'd seen. If indeed a werewolf's transformed physical size was influenced solely by their human form's physical size, then Zane must have been a big guy to begin with, in which case it would hardly be surprising that he'd become a large werewolf, so why would the other werewolf react with surprise? More factors must be at play here for the other werewolf to have reacted that way. My guess is, Zane is an ordinary or slightly bigger than ordinary guy, with enormous strength of character (and that's kinda the impression I get from the script anyway), and thus he surpasses the limitations determined by his physical size to become an enormous, incredibly strong, incredibly fast werewolf. [/spoiler] Maybe I'm reading far too much into it, but that's what I see.

In addition, a world in which 'who you really are' has an impact on your werewolf form in addition to your mere physical statistics is very appealing to me.

Syzygy · Post by **Syzygy** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:02 pm

Figarou wrote:And I'm not against big/fat werewolves. Maybe its possible. I'm just going by scientific theories. I could be right, I could be wrong. But nothing can be proven.

If someone is fat it does not guarantee 100% that they'll have a high cholestrol, some fatty foods are good for you and some fatty foods (of plant origin) don't contain any cholestrol at all.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:14 pm

Syzygy wrote:
Figarou wrote:And I'm not against big/fat werewolves. Maybe its possible. I'm just going by scientific theories. I could be right, I could be wrong. But nothing can be proven.
If someone is fat it does not guarantee 100% that they'll have a high cholestrol, some fatty foods are good for you and some fatty foods (of plant origin) don't contain any cholestrol at all.

You don't have to be fat to have high cholesterol. I also know "fat" doesn't make you fat. Carbohydrates make you fat.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/COLUM ... 00818.html

Raina The Werewolf Queen · Wed May 31, 2006 5:11 pm

Great.. here comes the whole diet lecture ^^

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:37 pm

Meh, I agree with Sabre- I am just so sick of our society that treats skinny people so much better than larger people.

That's why we have so many eating disorders. I don't want everyone to be perfect or everyone to be unattractive- I would just love to see a movie one day where the cast was a representative sample of the total population.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:59 am

Raina The Werewolf Queen wrote:Great.. here comes the whole diet lecture ^^

*hides box of duckie shaped Krispy Kreme donuts behind back*

What diet lecture?

PariahPoet wrote:Meh, I agree with Sabre- I am just so sick of our society that treats skinny people so much better than larger people. That's why we have so many eating disorders. I don't want everyone to be perfect or everyone to be unattractive- I would just love to see a movie one day where the cast was a representative sample of the total population.

Just so you know, I'm almost 30 pounds overweight.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:59 am

This is another good reason I was a tad reluctant to come to Akon...It's not about being a little over weight Figarou...

If you people are jumpin on larger people on here, what's going to happen when I get there? Am I going to get tagged fer being a big person cause I ain't no model that's fer sure.

I do hope that just knowing me on here and knowing what type of indvidual I am prevents problems, because while I might be bigger than the rest of you as are alot of folks it can be dealt with..eh soceity even online is getting difficult..

How can anyone different possibliy hope to survive in a world bent on everyones appeanrance and what-not...

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:29 am

SabreTheJokerWolfFool wrote:This is another good reason I was a tad reluctant to come to Akon...It's not about being a little over weight Figarou...

A little can mean alot!!!

I'm borderline to having high blood pressure. If I don't lose this weight now, I'm going to have problems in the future.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:38 am

I never said that Figarou that not to worry, I was saying simply that really big people get tagged..I wasn't pushing aside in the least bit and I'm sorry if it came out that way..

I'm just pointing out a key factor with todays standards on humans or werewolves...How can people say a larger werewolf can't be possible....

It hurts abit that people are only looking for teh skinny or not so big people in movie..

I am so tired of soceity!! People are just down right rude about larger folks

Say if I was a werewolf? You wouldn't believe me until I shifted would you? Just because of my weight..Now a smaller person say I'm a werewolf, would you believe them more so than I? Most likely you would fer teh fact that they are so much smaller and I so meaty...

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:49 am

SabreTheJokerWolfFool wrote:I never said that Figarou that not to worry, I was saying simply that really big people get tagged..I wasn't pushing aside in the least bit and I'm sorry if it came out that way..

I'm just pointing out a key factor with todays standards on humans or werewolves...How can people say a larger werewolf can't be possible....

It hurts abit that people are only looking for teh skinny or not so big people in movie..

I am so tired of soceity!! People are just down right rude about larger folks..

Say if I was a werewolf? You would believe me until I shifted would you? Just because of my weight..Now a smaller person say I'm a werewolf, would you believe them more so than I? Most likely you would fer teh fact that they are so meaty...

I understand what you are trying to say. People always make fun of other people.

I had a hard time in the army because I didn't drink alcohol. I was always made fun of because they thought I was scared to start drinking. The peer pressure was so high, I almost started drinking to prove to them I wasn't scared.

Well guess what. I disappointed them by NOT drinking alcohol at all!! I won the battle of peer pressure!!

You are unique, Sabre. Don't let the people who is making fun of you put you down. You have a talent. You're special. Others will look up to you for that. Trust me. I know because I never had a talent when I 1st arrived here. Now I'm well known for putting a smile on someone face.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:18 am

Your right Fig..I am just annoyed as you see, but I will get over it..I will lose the weight and I'll take care of it..

The really battle comes from when your trying to fix the problem..eh enough of that, but I am glad these things are understood by some folks..

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:39 am

I never made fun of anyone, Im with sabre and fig. All I am just saying that if you have a action of a scary movie you want the werewolf to be scary and muscular or fit, that way its more itimidating. But even a werewolf with a bit of a pot belly still looks cool, I got a picture of a latex werewolf costume with a pot belly somewhere, just let me look for it.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:44 am

Potbelly...Potbelly...Potbelly...

That is all anyone can seem to imagine here when they think of a larger person becoming a werewolf?

The most evident or distinguishing feature of people who are heavier than normal is NOT allways the extent by which thier belly sticks out. In fact...I know more than a few good friends who are overweight who don't have stand-out bellies at all, but are instead more evenly stocked from top to bottom...and they are Considerably-More Muscular than I am, in spite of being "technically" Less-Fit than I.

When I think of a heavier person becoming a werewolf, the LAST thing that comes to mind is an anthro-wolf with a great, jutting, Beer-Gut.

...usually, I invision something more along the lines of a Bear...a Behemoth...a clawed, hairy, gaited 'Freight Train' of a creature...the kind of thing you wouldn't want to get in the way of.

..."PotBellied" Werewolves...

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:36 am

Well, I'm basing my dislike for the idea of fat/overweight werewolves on the body types of most of the people that I know who are overweight (myself included). If I, or any of my overweight friends, became werewolves we'd look ridiculous. No bear or freight-train type werewolves here.

Also, as I said before, if lycanthropy does improve your overall fitness and health (and that's the general impression I've gotten from reading these forums) an overweight werewolf or an overly skinny werewolf just makes no sense. True, sometimes overweight people are healthy, but on average, being overweight is unhealthy. That's why, to me, only a werewolf who just recently became one would be fat or extremely skinny. Given time, a fat werewolf would slim down, and a skinny werewolf would gain a little. IMO, of course.

There's a difference between people who are big/large and people who are fat/overweight, to me at least. A big/large person becoming a werewolf could easily result in a kickass-looking bearish werewolf...but someone who is fat probably wouldn't. As I see it, most of the fat on a person's body would probably stay more or less where it was before, so someone who has flabby arms, big thighs, and various rolls here and there isn't likely to become a bearish werewolf...they're more likely to become a werewolf that simply looks ridiculous. It isn't so much how much you actually weigh that determines whether you're a big person or a fat person, but also height and frame size. I know people who would typically be considered big or large who weigh more than people who would typically be considered fat, and it's all a matter of where the fat falls on your frame, how big your frame is, and how tall you are.

In short, in my opinion:
Big/Large humans becoming bearish werewolves = good.
Fat/Overweight humans becoming pudgy or fat werewolves = Terrible, both aesthetically and logically, IMO.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:18 pm

Vuldari wrote:Potbelly...Potbelly...Potbelly...

That is all anyone can seem to imagine here when they think of a larger person becoming a werewolf?

The most evident or distinguishing feature of people who are heavier than normal is NOT allways the extent by which thier belly sticks out. In fact...I know more than a few good friends who are overweight who don't have stand-out bellies at all, but are instead more evenly stocked from top to bottom...and they are Considerably-More Muscular than I am, in spite of being "technically" Less-Fit than I.

When I think of a heavier person becoming a werewolf, the LAST thing that comes to mind is an anthro-wolf with a great, jutting, Beer-Gut.

...usually, I invision something more along the lines of a Bear...a Behemoth...a clawed, hairy, gaited 'Freight Train' of a creature...the kind of thing you wouldn't want to get in the way of.

..."PotBellied" Werewolves...

Vuldari you are being narrowminded right now.

No one is saying that a large person means that they have pot belly, atleast Im not, an offensive line men in football is large but they arent all consider pot belly, but mostly muscular. Dont you think we know that already? What we were reffering to is fat, or obesed people, that have potbelly.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:20 pm

Figarou wrote:
SabreTheJokerWolfFool wrote:This is another good reason I was a tad reluctant to come to Akon...It's not about being a little over weight Figarou...

A little can mean alot!!!

I'm borderline to having high blood pressure. If I don't lose this weight now, I'm going to have problems in the future.

Funny you dont look overweight at all.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:39 pm

Vuldari wrote:Potbelly...Potbelly...Potbelly...

That is all anyone can seem to imagine here when they think of a larger person becoming a werewolf?

The most evident or distinguishing feature of people who are heavier than normal is NOT allways the extent by which thier belly sticks out. In fact...I know more than a few good friends who are overweight who don't have stand-out bellies at all, but are instead more evenly stocked from top to bottom...and they are Considerably-More Muscular than I am, in spite of being "technically" Less-Fit than I.

When I think of a heavier person becoming a werewolf, the LAST thing that comes to mind is an anthro-wolf with a great, jutting, Beer-Gut.

...usually, I invision something more along the lines of a Bear...a Behemoth...a clawed, hairy, gaited 'Freight Train' of a creature...the kind of thing you wouldn't want to get in the way of.

..."PotBellied" Werewolves...

You should know when someone starts to get fat, the body stores it in the belly of males. So its more likely to see someone become a "potbelly" before the body places the fat in other parts of the body.

And what about the female? Hmmmm? I think you know where the fat is stored.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:06 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote: Vuldari you are being narrowminded right now.

No one is saying that a large person means that they have pot belly, atleast Im not, an offensive line men in football is large but they arent all consider pot belly, but mostly muscular. Dont you think we know that already? What we were reffering to is fat, or obesed people, that have potbelly.

You think I am being narrowminded?

The entire point of that whole message was that I thought that everyone else was being narrowminded, and that there are more types of people than just Idealistic Screen Models (Typical Movie Stars), and grossly overweight people. No one seemed to even suggest the possibility of only "moderately" overweight people being candidates.

Of course I am not suggesting that we should see 540+ pound, morbidly obese people who can't leave thier chairs without the aid of a motorized vehicle as werewolves. Someone like that would likely die of a heart attack after the bite anyway.

...likewise, niether was I suggesting that 72 pound, anorexic adults who are so disgustingly skinny that they look like they are dead should be shown as werewolves either. Again...someone in that condition would likely die from the bloodloss from the bite, or from thier weakend immune system giving in to normal infection from the wound...or a heart attack again.

NOT the disgusting, (amazing they are still alive), extremes. Of course not. I don't want to see that either. Just "Normal" people. Not just Action-Movie-Star male actors, and Pin-Up ready, Model Actresses.

...YES, I mean people just like you and me.

I am unusually skinny, but not disgustingly so...I think I would make a cool looking werewolf.

I also have some close family and friends who are 50-100+ pounds overweight, (some of which with beer-guts even), and I don't find the thought of them as werewolves to be "Rediculous" at all. In fact...they were the people I was thinking about when I wrote that last message.

I DO want to see that.

It would only look bad if the wrong parts were emphisized in the body, and considering that the transformation will strengthen and enhance thier musculature overall, and that there will be hair/fur masking any fat-rolls that may be left over (though I think those would be flattened out and redistributed, making that a mute point) I don't see there being any problems, assuming the person is not more than 150 pounds overweight.

Now...if someone like the mother from the movie "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" was made a werewolf...now THAT would be gross and Rediculous.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:29 am

Figarou wrote: Just so you know, I'm almost 30 pounds overweight.

Oh goodness, I wasn't accusing anyone of being insensitive. I just get upset with people as a whole sometimes.

Sabre-
I know I missed a lot of this conversation and am coming in a bit late, but I hope you won't be scared off from coming to A-Kon to visit with us. You are the most kind, intelligent, and talented person I've met online and would hate to lose the chance to meet you in person. Besides, you're lovely! Both as a jokerwolf and as a hyooman!

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:35 am

Vuldari wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote: Vuldari you are being narrowminded right now.

No one is saying that a large person means that they have pot belly, atleast Im not, an offensive line men in football is large but they arent all consider pot belly, but mostly muscular. Dont you think we know that already? What we were reffering to is fat, or obesed people, that have potbelly.
You think I am being narrowminded?

The entire point of that whole message was that I thought that everyone else was being narrowminded, and that there are more types of people than just Idealistic Screen Models (Typical Movie Stars), and grossly overweight people. No one seemed to even suggest the possibility of only "moderately" overweight people being candidates.

Of course I am not suggesting that we should see 540+ pound, morbidly obese people who can't leave thier chairs without the aid of a motorized vehicle as werewolves. Someone like that would likely die of a heart attack after the bite anyway.

...likewise, niether was I suggesting that 72 pound, anorexic adults who are so disgustingly skinny that they look like they are dead should be shown as werewolves either. Again...someone in that condition would likely die from the bloodloss from the bite, or from thier weakend immune system giving in to normal infection from the wound...or a heart attack again.

NOT the disgusting, (amazing they are still alive), extremes. Of course not. I don't want to see that either. Just "Normal" people. Not just Action-Movie-Star male actors, and Pin-Up ready, Model Actresses.

...YES, I mean people just like you and me.

I am unusually skinny, but not disgustingly so...I think I would make a cool looking werewolf.

I also have some close family and friends who are 50-100+ pounds overweight, (some of which with beer-guts even), and I don't find the thought of them as werewolves to be "Rediculous" at all. In fact...they were the people I was thinking about when I wrote that last message.

I DO want to see that.

It would only look bad if the wrong parts were emphisized in the body, and considering that the transformation will strengthen and enhance thier musculature overall, and that there will be hair/fur masking any fat-rolls that may be left over (though I think those would be flattened out and redistributed, making that a mute point) I don't see there being any problems, assuming the person is not more than 150 pounds overweight.

Now...if someone like the mother from the movie "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" was made a werewolf...now THAT would be gross and Rediculous.

Ok now I see where your getting at. Yeah ofcourse if your 30 to 60 (100 pounds...I dont think that will look all that good) pounds overweight then it will still be fine, and once they transformed into a werewolf you wont even tell if they are overweight.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:52 am

I'm all for regression toward the mean. Yes, to survive as a werewolf for a long time one would have to be pretty physically fit. This is how I see it-

Larger people- If an overweight person becomes a werewolf, I don't think they would automaticly die from it. I think that if they don't have any major health problems like a heart condition they would just become a slightly pudgy werewolf. However, I think shifting would require massive ammounts of energy, so with each shift, the human form would lose some fat and build some muscle until they reached the prime condition for their height and skeletal structure.

Skinny people- To be honest, I think an underweight person would be less likely to survive the shift than an overweight person. Going on the same idea that shifting requires an enormous ammount of energy, an underweight person would not have the reserves to draw on. It they did survive the first shift, they would be absolutely depleted and probably have to spend several days recouperating. Then they would have to decide to change their lifestyle or allow lycanthropy to kill them. A skinny person would have to actively change their eating habits to include many more calories with a greater percent of protien to get into a better condition to shift. Either that or their body would realize the need and they would start craving the food they need because of their condition.

So there's my two cents.

(by the way, shouldn't this be in "What should a werewolf be"? I'm surprised it hasn't been moved yet.)

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:20 pm

PariahPoet wrote:A skinny person would have to actively change their eating habits to include many more calories with a greater percent of protien to get into a better condition to shift. Either that or their body would realize the need and they would start craving the food they need because of their condition.

I figure that in the period of infection before the shift, the increased metabolism would end up causing a person to eat more, and become hungerier more often.