Jewish werewolf article

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:29 am

Here's the link:
http://www.forward.com/articles/should- ... xtinction/

It mentions some basic facts I've heard before, namely that the most influential stereotypes of werewolf movies were originally symbolic representations of Jews, but it also goes into a lot of details that I hadn't heard before.

Uniform Two Six · Post by **Uniform Two Six** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:36 am

The werewolf as an analogy for the jews?

Wow. That's definently a new one. I think somebody has waaaaay too much spare time.

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:20 am

Uniform Two Six wrote:The werewolf as an analogy for the jews?
Wow. That's definently a new one. I think somebody has waaaaay too much spare time.

I agree. I personally think thats a little silly. But interesting find!

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:17 pm

Thats silly.

White Paw · Post by **White Paw** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:23 pm

that is ....very silly...

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:30 pm

My one Question: How would a Jewish Werewolf keep Kosher?
Side question: How do you circumcise a Werewolf? (and live)
Can you imagine a Jewish Mother Werewwolf???

Lukas · Post by **Lukas** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:56 pm

so we all agree its*looks at paper* silly...now what?

White Paw · Post by **White Paw** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:07 pm

how do you circumcise a werewolf you ask........the answer....

[spoiler]very carefully[/spoiler]

RedWolf · Post by **RedWolf** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:07 pm

How about this story?
"Reincarnated Dog Begs Forgiveness"
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 92,00.html

While it doesn't exactly mention a Jewish werewolf, this article does describe an Israeli belief in humans being reincarnated as dogs.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:35 pm

My one Question: How would a Jewish Werewolf keep Kosher?
Side question: How do you circumcise a Werewolf? (and live)
Can you imagine a Jewish Mother Werewwolf?

lol

Yeah, never heard of or even thought of Werewolf=Jew...Ooookay....

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Lukas wrote:so we all agree its*looks at paper* silly...now what?

Hey! Not as silly as it sounds at first read. Why? Because Curt Siodmak, the scriptwriter for The Wolf Man (the most influential piece of werewolf fiction ever) claims that this symbolism was what he intended as the basis behind the script.
Of course, it's so deeply hidden that I don't see why anyone who hadn't read Curt's own words on the subject would see that symbolism. Still, an author is generally considered the greatest authority on the real, intended meaning behind his own material, so, even as silly as it sounds, it shouldn't just be brushed aside as being completely beneath notice.

Lukas · Post by **Lukas** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:09 pm

i think you took my joke a little to far there

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:19 pm

Lukas wrote:i think you took my joke a little to far there

I didn't mean to upset you, and I didn't know you were joking. The only reason I quoted you at all is because you were just the latest in a long line of people to call it silly, and I wanted to get the (admittedly few) reasons it wasn't silly out there, for those who hadn't read Curt Siodmak's explanation of his script ideas before (I think the article writer was sloppy and assumed that his audience already knew this and was breezing past these facts without making it clear that the ideas he was writing about weren't entirely cooked up by himself).

There's a longer, better article about it in the book "The Illustrated Werewolf Movie Guide" by Stephen Jones, and I also saw a bunch of articles about it around the time Curt Siodmak died.

Ashkin-Tyr · Post by **Ashkin-Tyr** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:02 pm

Never realized the werewolf was a Jewish symbol. I would have probably dismissed such talk earlier, too. However, if the scriptwriter said so himself, I cannot really argue.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:20 pm

Ashkin-Tyr wrote:Never realized the werewolf was a Jewish symbol. I would have probably dismissed such talk earlier, too. However, if the scriptwriter said so himself, I cannot really argue.

I can't remember all the various bits and pieces I've read, but I think what Curt Siodmak said basically boiled down to two themes: one, that the werewolf as an innocent man forced to kill symbolized what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust, namely, that some of them had to do some pretty ugly things in order to escape, but it was because circumstances had backed them into a corner, so it wasn't really their faults. The other main thing I remember is that Curt Siodmak said the full moon symbolized the swastika, because people died when it appeared (this was his own personal symbolism, I don't think Jews in general have this symbolism). There were a bunch of other details of Curt Siodmak's symbolism, but I can't remember them now. From reading Jewish werewolf folklore (what little of it I can find) I don't think he based any of his ideas on Jewish folklore. In fact, he's admitted in interviews that when he was doing research, he couldn't find much werewolf folklore at all, so the film is based mostly on his own ideas.

Uniform Two Six · Post by **Uniform Two Six** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:44 am

Jamie wrote:In fact, he's admitted in interviews that when he was doing research, he couldn't find much werewolf folklore at all, so the film is based mostly on his own ideas.

Classic Hollywood solution: When in doubt, make stuff up.

Seriously, though. The reason I still think this is a little bizarre is that until the 1930s, this association did not exist in any form. Moreover, I think it's a little odd to identify yourself with a mythological creature generally regarded as evil, expect that creature to be regarded as deserving of sympathy, and then use symbology that nobody is going to get in order to impart that idea.

Perhaps the most ironic part of all this is that there was a special unit inside the Waffen SS which identified itself with the werewolf mythology as an icon of fearsomness and strength and was called (imaginatively enough) the Werewolves. For the record, its mission was to fight a guerilla war with the United States following the occupation of Germany. It quickly evaporated once Hitler whacked himself.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:49 pm

Uniform Two Six wrote: Seriously, though. The reason I still think this is a little bizarre is that until the 1930s, this association did not exist in any form. Moreover, I think it's a little odd to identify yourself with a mythological creature generally regarded as evil, expect that creature to be regarded as deserving of sympathy, and then use symbology that nobody is going to get in order to impart that idea.

It is indeed quite odd. I've read some incredibly bizarre things that authors have said about what their writing really means, but Curt Siodmak is really out there. I find it hard to believe that anyone would be expected to get Curt Siodmak's symbolism by merely watching the movie, unless he had explained it to them first.
Of course, back in those times the movie might not have been made at all if it had any Jewish symbolism that could be spotted by a normal viewer.
It is also odd to use a symbol that's been used by your enemies. Maybe, in identifying with a symbol the nazis had already tried to claim, Curt Siodmak was trying to take that symbol back. That's a technique that is sometimes used in propoganda wars: you keep on taking over your enemy's symbols.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:28 pm

Oy! Dish deer carcass is not kosher. Oy, I must go to temple...

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:09 pm

Oi, that explains it! John Stewart has mentioned werewolves more than once, and Leonard Nimoy... what can I say? Pointed ears? Subtle, huh?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:52 am

This is possibly the most unexpecting news about werewolves I have ever read.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:36 pm

What does the Torah say about werewolves? HAH!

And lo, did Abraham wander the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. And on the 41st he was bitten by one of Lucifer's underlings. And lo, did he sprout hair all over his body...

Oy Vey Mashugina...I don't think even my 5-bladed razor is enough for this!