Question on translating wolf speech to human speech.

Kwipper · Post by **Kwipper** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:47 am

Would there be a way to translate the howls, growls, and body language of wolf communication to human words?

ABrownrigg · Post by **ABrownrigg** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:57 am

Other than subtitles no.

And I'm not using subtitles.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:43 pm

On the whole, I think a werewolf's body language would be expressive enough without the need for subtitles.

Or at least it should be.

ABrownrigg · Post by **ABrownrigg** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:00 pm

Yes, indeed.. but its something the audience will have to watch for.. not like a translation.. thats what I thought was meant.. sowwies.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:09 pm

ABrownrigg wrote:Yes, indeed.. but its something the audience will have to watch for.. not like a translation.. thats what I thought was meant.. sowwies.

Well, its easy to tell if a werewolf is happy to see someone.

*wags tail*

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:45 am

ABrownrigg wrote:Yes, indeed.. but its something the audience will have to watch for.. not like a translation.. thats what I thought was meant.. sowwies.

I think that was what was meant.

Might be an interesting feature on the DVD though:
Subtitles:
Spanish
French
English for the Hearing Impaired
English for the Expressively Dumb.

Visual: A werewolf snarling at the camera.
Subtitle: "I'm angry."

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:24 am

Terastas wrote:
ABrownrigg wrote:Yes, indeed.. but its something the audience will have to watch for.. not like a translation.. thats what I thought was meant.. sowwies.
I think that was what was meant.
Might be an interesting feature on the DVD though:
Subtitles:
Spanish
French
English for the Hearing Impaired
English for the Expressively Dumb.

Visual: A werewolf snarling at the camera.
Subtitle: "I'm angry."

Heh, the expressively dumb wouldn't know how to turn on that feature.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:53 pm

ABrownrigg wrote:Other than subtitles no.

And I'm not using subtitles.

Perhaps we could have a subtitle option for werewolf "expressions" for the DVD?

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:59 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:
ABrownrigg wrote:Other than subtitles no.

And I'm not using subtitles.
Perhaps we could have a subtitle option for werewolf "expressions" for the DVD?

Suuurrrrreee. A little wolf emoticon appears on the screen showing the expression.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:29 pm

No offense, but if someone has a hard time understanding the meaning of:

or

They'll probably need to wait for the Cliffsnotes DVD to come out.

Baphnedia · Post by **Baphnedia** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:31 pm

Hey, this movie could be the first to have a strong-selling cliffnotes DVD. It might even outsell the director's cut!

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:01 pm

Baphnedia wrote:Hey, this movie could be the first to have a strong-selling cliffnotes DVD. It might even outsell the director's cut!

Nah. Cliffsnotes versions would only sell really well for those ultra-trippy movies like Waking Life and Eraserhead. Only the seriously braindead should need a simplified version of a film like this.

Tala el'Shiharan · Post by **Tala el'Shiharan** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:42 pm

Why use subtitles...when you can make their thoughts heard using the actors' voices? No silly animation of wolf mouths of course. Just speech. Minimal Dialogue, as needed for the audience to better understand.

KitsuneKit · Post by **KitsuneKit** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:08 am

Well, I think the less words used when in wolf form the better, use the actor's body language to portray what they mean.

Vilkacis · Post by **Vilkacis** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:23 am

While I generally agree with KitsuneKit on this particular point, the idea that Tala el'Shiharan presents is interesting. Although I think it would be difficult to pull off well, I could certainly see it as being a powerful technique in certain contexts.

It's worthy of note, I think.

-- Vilkacis

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:03 pm

Tala el'Shiharan wrote:Why use subtitles...when you can make their thoughts heard using the actors' voices? No silly animation of wolf mouths of course. Just speech. Minimal Dialogue, as needed for the audience to better understand.

It's an interesting idea, but I think such a technique should be used sparingly. It's difficult to administer the whole "thoughts as they come" approach where you hear the actor's voice, or at least difficult to administer without looking campy or stupid. However, some of the best movies out there let us into one character's mind by having his/her voice double as the narrator (Monster, American Beauty, Boiler Room, Snatch, Fight Club, etc.). If there's a similar central character in Freeborn, that might a good way to implenent it. However, if there isn't a character that can guide the audience through the whole plotline without giving anything away (well, if Jack's narrating this, we know his tail isn't in harm's way), something like that would be better avoided.

Besides, sometimes actions not only speak louder than words, but words can also lessen the action's effect. Remember the subtitles for the Drej in Titan A.E.? I don't know about you, but I think the Drej would have seemed more evil if they'd just ignored the translation and let their actions speak for themselves. The same could be true of the werewolves in Freeborn -- we wouldn't need to be informed that a werewolf is sad, angry etc. if the animators are worth their salt (and I've seen Albee's work: he's worth a lot more than that).

That just leaves the werewolf's intentions in some of his actions, but then again, there is only really suspense in a movie if we don't know what will happen, so letting us into the protagonist's head could cut the suspense level in half. It's like using a cheat sheet to play Silent Hill -- the gameplay isn't that good but we love it because of all the psycho-horror crap it throws at us. If you already know about every bit of the latter, the point is gone.

So I'm standing by my "no speech, no subtitles" opinion. In all seriousness, I think there are enough werewolf movies that have been dumbed down out there already.

Tala el'Shiharan · Post by **Tala el'Shiharan** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 pm

Yes, more like sparingly used narration.

What I was imagining was not the wolves chattering constantly to wachother (that would get annoying) but an occasional look into character's minds, letting the audience hear a bit of their internal opinions and comments...

JonathanBaine · Post by **JonathanBaine** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:18 pm

There has been a study on the translation of wolf comunicated through their sounds and body movement. I think thats cool even though it hasn't been confirmed. Of course, it may be hard to translate between

and

..Into, "I wanna play!" or "I want my butt kicked!"
Personally, I think their the same thing...yet the one on the right does have the slighter flick of the tail......

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:23 am

The thing is, it's not speech so much as a combinations of noises, body position, context and actions. if m ycat is sitting in front of a door and meows, se probably wants it open. if ashe sits in ront of her food bowl and meows, she probably wants food/water. if she comes to me and meows, she wants atatention, but if she comes to me and meows, then dances away when i try to pet her, she wants me to follow her somewhere. all of this using the same sit position and meow.

JonathanBaine · Post by **JonathanBaine** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:29 pm

Of course.