Genetic Diversity

[outwarddoodles]

I have been pondering this for awhile....

If a werewolf bites a human it is injected it's werewolf DNA into the human. Then woul the newly bitten now have the same genetic wolf form as the werewolf that bit him? Same hair, structure, ETC. But not egxactly the same for not everything we have done is stored as information withen DNA. (scars or injuries for example.)
--Or would the person's individual DNA they already have form with the new werewolf genes and form as a whole new werewolf.
--If that person bites someone else will it pass the same stuff given to him or if the DNA had formed and created new DNA then do they pas on a whole new set of information.
--Being that werewolves wouldn't be so diverse and could the babies become deformed?

So to sum it up, are they the same wolf or do they somehow have whole new DNA information?

[Kzinistzerg]

WHole new DNA, I think. Because I think the virus causes the change and gives you the general shape, but with both humans and wolves, the details of what you look like would depend on your own unique DNA.

Then again, with that, would twins look the same in werewolf form?

[outwarddoodles]

Then again, with that, would twins look the same in werewolf form?

That completly depends on what type of twins. I'm a twin but we're ferternal, not identicle.

WHole new DNA, I think. Because I think the virus causes the change and gives you the general shape, but with both humans and wolves, the details of what you look like would depend on your own unique DNA.

Yeah, thats what I'm thinking. But they still would be sorta 'related' to each other.

[Vilkacis]

I would say that it's not really clear whether or not the werewolf injects its DNA, as opposed to, say, something undetermined that changes the bitten's DNA. Even if the werewolf did send along some of its DNA to be used, I would say that it does not replace the existing DNA, but rather parts of it are used to modify the DNA of the newly bitten. In that way, I think that the new werewolf would be unique, although its appearance might minimally reflect that of the original werewolf.

But then again, almost everyone here looks the same



-- Vilkacis

[Scott Gardener]

I've contemplated this problem for some time. My own werewolves have elements in the virus that borrow pieces of the human and use it to custom-rewrite itself in describing the wolf form. This is known as the "recombinant factor" or "delta factor," though it is not mentioned in any existing writing. (I suppose a simpler solution would be to write a spot in the genome that simply says "use whatever the human genome says for this" to fill in things like eye color or fur color, but I needed this plot device for future unwritten story concepts.)

One interesting consequence I've considered from the other extreme, is that if the virus were really DNA all-inclusive, everyone infected would turn into the same wolf, even if that meant half of werewolves would change sex when shifting...

[Figarou]

But then again, almost everyone here looks the same



-- Vilkacis

I feel like I'm in one of those suspect line ups.



"Can you tell us which one tossed the duckie at you?"

"I'm not sure. It happened so quickly."

[outwarddoodles]

One interesting consequence I've considered from the other extreme, is that if the virus were really DNA all-inclusive, everyone infected would turn into the same wolf, even if that meant half of werewolves would change sex when shifting...

O_o. I don't wanna be a boy werewolf!

[Figarou]

One interesting consequence I've considered from the other extreme, is that if the virus were really DNA all-inclusive, everyone infected would turn into the same wolf, even if that meant half of werewolves would change sex when shifting...

Have you seen John Carpenter's The Thing?

Remember that computer simulation of that alien cell shaping itself to mimic its host?

To me, the werewolf "virus" is doing just that. Instead of bringing the DNA from the last host, it shapes itself using DNA from the new host. If the werewolf is a shape shifter, why not have the "virus" itself be a shape shifter.

[Terastas]

It could be that the lycanthropic syndrome can only recognize the DNA for a generic human and a generic wolf, but isn't sophisticated enough to influence the differring factors (IE: it recognizes the human and the wolf, but not Snakeyes and Timber). This would allow it to influence the body to shift from human to gestalt to full wolf and vice versa, with the additional genetic code filled in by that of the original recipient. If, for example, the basic wolf DNA code does not involve fur color, the recipient's gestalt and lupus forms would have the same color fur as he had hair.

Just a theory.

[Silverclaw]

I think that the werewolf 'virus' would fuse with the humans own original DNA. That person would be their own unique WW. No clones or anything like that. Black haired, blue eyed human would make a black furred, blue eyed werewolf. Some of their traits would still be seen. A few changes can occur, like golden eyes, or maybe a white pelt/multicolored pelt.

[Set]

One interesting consequence I've considered from the other extreme, is that if the virus were really DNA all-inclusive, everyone infected would turn into the same wolf, even if that meant half of werewolves would change sex when shifting...

O_o. I don't wanna be a boy werewolf!

Most people wouldn't want to change gender, I'm one of the few who would. It would be something like this:
*first shift in wolf form* Whoo! I'm a guy at last! *howls, then the sun comes up and shifts back* Aww dang it! I'm a girl again... *whine*

[Figarou]

One interesting consequence I've considered from the other extreme, is that if the virus were really DNA all-inclusive, everyone infected would turn into the same wolf, even if that meant half of werewolves would change sex when shifting...

O_o. I don't wanna be a boy werewolf!

Most people wouldn't want to change gender, I'm one of the few who would. It would be something like this:
*first shift in wolf form* Whoo! I'm a guy at last! *howls, then the sun comes up and shifts back* Aww dang it! I'm a girl again... *whine*

Just make sure you are not wearing tight pants when shifting through clothes.

OUCH!!!!

[Vuldari]

Ohhh...so many ideas to contemplate.

Are the decendants of a werewolf line copies of the original, or do they each add their own variation to the genetic pool?

I'd say, the *contagion* would merely include instructions on how to reform the human body into a wolf one, rather than be a full replacement for the persons entire genetic code. ... "footnotes" tagged onto the the DNA (...or whatever), like a patch or a plug-in for a computer program. Some common traits would probobly be carried over from one host to the next, but general mutation, as well as uniquely dominant gene patterns in each person would create reasonable variation from one Werewolf to the next. Recognisable similarities, like father and son, (or brother and sister), but unique as well.
(...this opinion has more to do with idealism than scientific logic...)

I recall playing with the idea that the WereWolf *Contagion* could be a sort of symbiotic, shapeshifting entity itself as well. My psudo-theory was that it originated as symbiotic colony/organism that exclusively existed inside Wolf biology. The Virus/microorganism colony/symbiot/whatever survived by reformating its host wolves body into a stonger, idealistic form when it was in danger, and then reverted again afterwards to make the wolf less conspicuous as a threat to "lesser" wolves and other competing species. However, (of course) at some point, the organism/virus mutated in such a way that it was able to bond with the body of a poor, unsuspecting human who was fortunate/unfortunate to be bitten by such a wolf and ...well...I think you can guess what happened next. The symbiotic organisms couldn't tell the human flesh apart from the usual wolf flesh that it it had evolved to support, so when it recieved the right environmental/ biochemical signals to do it's thing (*Full Moon plus adrenaline rush*), it reshaped the ,(grossly deformed wolf, near as it could tell), human body into a powerful, wolfish one. ...the rest, you could say, is history.



Changing gender durring a shift? ...I can admit to being curious about the idea, but in the long run...Naaaaa.

[Figarou]

Changing gender durring a shift? ...I can admit to being curious about the idea, but in the long run...Naaaaa.

And its silly!!!


No NO NO NO!

[Vuldari]

Changing gender durring a shift? ...I can admit to being curious about the idea, but in the long run...Naaaaa.

And its silly!!!


No NO NO NO!

Agreed.

[Scott Gardener]

Figarou:

Have you seen John Carpenter's The Thing?

Remember that computer simulation of that alien cell shaping itself to mimic its host?

To me, the werewolf "virus" is doing just that. Instead of bringing the DNA from the last host, it shapes itself using DNA from the new host. If the werewolf is a shape shifter, why not have the "virus" itself be a shape shifter.

Just as long as my head doesn't pop off and crawl out the door on its own. That movie took gore and grotesque imagery to such a great height that it made me seriusly reconsider for a few minutes my ultimate daydream about being a shapeshifter!

[Figarou]

Figarou:

Have you seen John Carpenter's The Thing?

Remember that computer simulation of that alien cell shaping itself to mimic its host?

To me, the werewolf "virus" is doing just that. Instead of bringing the DNA from the last host, it shapes itself using DNA from the new host. If the werewolf is a shape shifter, why not have the "virus" itself be a shape shifter.

Just as long as my head doesn't pop off and crawl out the door on its own. That movie took gore and grotesque imagery to such a great height that it made me seriusly reconsider for a few minutes my ultimate daydream about being a shapeshifter!

Yes, that movie was really something. I still watch it whenever I get the chance.

[Terastas]

I don't think we need to worry about heads coming off, but it would make sense to consider the shift an action of the virus as opposed to the host. The only gap in this logic I could see would be to explain how a werewolf would shift voluntarily, but we could fill that in by stating that the virus can only shift under certain conditions which, if understood, the host can force the influence of.

It's debatable as to how, but I think we're at least agreed that some of the werewolf's human traits will also be present in his wolf form. Like that line in the Matrix: Reloaded (roughly): "I don't know how it works, but I'm thankful that it does."

[Figarou]

I don't think we need to worry about heads coming off, but it would make sense to consider the shift an action of the virus as opposed to the host.

When a werewolf has the ability to shift at anytime, what is he controlling? The shift? Or the "werewolf virus" itself?

The way I see it, the "werewolf virus" gives the host the ability to shift. (The gift) One can learn how to control it. Not the "werewolf virus," but the shifting.


During the full moon, the "werewolf virus" is highly active. It could take over and the host shifts whether he likes it or not. But with deep concentration, he could prevent or delay that shift. This way, the werewolf doesn't have to make a sudden disappearance every time the full moon pops out.

[Apokryltaros]

I don't think we need to worry about heads coming off, but it would make sense to consider the shift an action of the virus as opposed to the host.

When a werewolf has the ability to shift at anytime, what is he controlling? The shift? Or the "werewolf virus" itself?

The way I see it, the "werewolf virus" gives the host the ability to shift. (The gift) One can learn how to control it. Not the "werewolf virus," but the shifting.


During the full moon, the "werewolf virus" is highly active. It could take over and the host shifts whether he likes it or not. But with deep concentration, he could prevent or delay that shift. This way, the werewolf doesn't have to make a sudden disappearance every time the full moon pops out.

A virus isn't alive.
When a viral disease's symptoms manifest, it's either because the infected cells that have been manufacturing the virus have ruptured and have now released their products (both virus and cellular wastes), or because the infected cells have had their genes screwed up and are now doing something that they're not normally supposed to be doing, ala making a new chemical or becoming cancerous.

I'm thinking that higher adrenaline levels or the full moon would stimulate infected cells into activity.

[Terastas]

I don't think we need to worry about heads coming off, but it would make sense to consider the shift an action of the virus as opposed to the host.

When a werewolf has the ability to shift at anytime, what is he controlling? The shift? Or the "werewolf virus" itself?

Like I said in the exact same post, once the werewolf is aware of his condition and what causes it, he can have some control over what influences it. Shifting is beyond our capabilities as is, but presumably there is something we do naturally which would cause us to shapeshift were we werewolves. If we were infected, once we figured out what it was that caused the shift, we would better know how to encourage the virus to become active, or suppress it.

[Figarou]

A virus isn't alive.
When a viral disease's symptoms manifest, it's either because the infected cells that have been manufacturing the virus have ruptured and have now released their products (both virus and cellular wastes), or because the infected cells have had their genes screwed up and are now doing something that they're not normally supposed to be doing, ala making a new chemical or becoming cancerous.

I'm thinking that higher adrenaline levels or the full moon would stimulate infected cells into activity.

yes yes. A virus isn't alive. You told us that already.


So, when one has "control" of the shift, what is he controling? The chemical reaction? The cells producing the chemical?


Inquiring minds want to know.

[Vuldari]

I'm thinking that higher adrenaline levels or the full moon would stimulate infected cells into activity.

...So, when one has "control" of the shift, what is he controling? The chemical reaction? The cells producing the chemical?


Inquiring minds want to know.

I think that Werewolves would NOT have dirrect controll over their "gift", but merely over other factors that influence it's activation. (As has been suggested allready, but I would like to elaborate.)

To use yet another mechanical comparison, (I seem quite fond of those), I'll compare shifting to the activation of a turbine. There is no ON/OFF switch in a werewolves mind which he/she can flip to start or stop the change. However, they do have some limited controll over the "flood gates". Just as when you let the water flow, it will indirrectly cause the turbine to turn, allowing ones adrenaline levels to rise, (as well as various, unnamed bodily chenicals), would in turn stimulate a werewolves body to shift. ...and just like a floodgate, you cant keep it closed forever. (But that is getting onto a completely different topic... )

...that said, let's try to stay ON-TOPIC. This discussion is about "Genetic Diversity". Is there any way that the nature of the *"viruses" (*we really need to come up with a diferent word to describe it), activation relates to how traits would or would not be passed on to another?

[Figarou]

*"viruses" (*we really need to come up with a diferent word to describe it),

We already have the word. ----->

[Set]

*"viruses" (*we really need to come up with a diferent word to describe it)

Er, I'm not sure what word you're looking for. I don't think "bacteria" would work but I don't know much about microscopic...things.

We already have the word. ----->

...Oh Figarou...think fast!